Re: Psychics and Frauds
09 Oct 2011, 21:15
I do have something that I would like to throw into the mix here. If you think about people who have psychic ability as having an unusual talent or gift, some of this might make sense if you compare them to child prodigies. True child prodigies are few and far between. At least the recognized ones are few and far between. For simplicity's sake, let's take musical prodigies as an example.
All across the globe there are parents who think that their little Billy is a musical genius. Trust me on this one, as I looked for a particular young man who I saw on a documentary last week only to find a load of kids who are claimed to be "the next Mozart" and they hurt my ears. Yeah, they're good for their age, and probably better than most adults on a piano but not exceptional.
This "CNN Living" article was interesting and an enjoyable read: http://articles.cnn.com/2007-12-10/livi ... =PM:LIVING
Just about anyone (but me) can be trained to play the piano. Some come by it naturally and some don't. There are very few who would be considered a child prodigy in this area. How much of a leap is it to apply this same talent to the term psychic?
There are many different terms to describe a person of talent such as gifted, bright, genius, exceptional, etc., but a true "prodigy" is a very rare occurrence.
They exist, that's for sure. We also don't know how many of them are out there in the world. If the kid ain't got no piano, there's no way to know if there's any talent or gift.
Now usually a prodigy will show other exceptional abilities in other areas such as math, science, chess, etc. It's not like they're a one trick pony and that's what makes them a prodigy rather than just extremely talented. Here's another article (not a great source but good article) about prodigies. Now I don't know too many parents that want their kid to be the next John Edwards (except for John Edwards, Sr.) as being a GREAT psychic isn't exactly considered a normal life path. Then again, the chances of someone making a good living at playing the piano is few and far between as well. However, there are countless bars and restaurants set up with a piano man complete with brandy snifter for tips to be found in this country. There's one piano man who made it to the top while the rest sink into obscurity. For you youngin's, I'm talking about Billy Joel, just so ya know. So you have a pianist sitting in a bar playing show tunes compared to a psychic sitting at a psychic fair giving readings. How many of each are going to get to the top? How many really want to get to the top of the heap? The same goes for child prodigies. It seems that the burn out rate for the truly gifted ones can be very high and people like music. Psychic talent...not so much.
All across the globe there are parents who think that their little Billy is a musical genius. Trust me on this one, as I looked for a particular young man who I saw on a documentary last week only to find a load of kids who are claimed to be "the next Mozart" and they hurt my ears. Yeah, they're good for their age, and probably better than most adults on a piano but not exceptional.
This "CNN Living" article was interesting and an enjoyable read: http://articles.cnn.com/2007-12-10/livi ... =PM:LIVING
Just about anyone (but me) can be trained to play the piano. Some come by it naturally and some don't. There are very few who would be considered a child prodigy in this area. How much of a leap is it to apply this same talent to the term psychic?
There are many different terms to describe a person of talent such as gifted, bright, genius, exceptional, etc., but a true "prodigy" is a very rare occurrence.
They exist, that's for sure. We also don't know how many of them are out there in the world. If the kid ain't got no piano, there's no way to know if there's any talent or gift.
Now usually a prodigy will show other exceptional abilities in other areas such as math, science, chess, etc. It's not like they're a one trick pony and that's what makes them a prodigy rather than just extremely talented. Here's another article (not a great source but good article) about prodigies. Now I don't know too many parents that want their kid to be the next John Edwards (except for John Edwards, Sr.) as being a GREAT psychic isn't exactly considered a normal life path. Then again, the chances of someone making a good living at playing the piano is few and far between as well. However, there are countless bars and restaurants set up with a piano man complete with brandy snifter for tips to be found in this country. There's one piano man who made it to the top while the rest sink into obscurity. For you youngin's, I'm talking about Billy Joel, just so ya know. So you have a pianist sitting in a bar playing show tunes compared to a psychic sitting at a psychic fair giving readings. How many of each are going to get to the top? How many really want to get to the top of the heap? The same goes for child prodigies. It seems that the burn out rate for the truly gifted ones can be very high and people like music. Psychic talent...not so much.
Re: Psychics and Frauds
09 Oct 2011, 22:39
Re: Psychics and Frauds
10 Oct 2011, 00:00
In the case of Lisa Irwin if I thought I had psychic information I would be very reluctant to come forward and share it. There would be loudmouth skeptics expecting me to fail and looking for any way possible to make me look stupid and I would not want to deal with them. There is always this expectation of perfection. Even if I got important details right there is no guarantee that I would be acknowledged for them. If you read the article on the psychology of the skeptic you'll know why.
According to what I've read, this sort of search and rescue is a job for remote viewing organizations, not individuals. In order to get consistently good results you really need to have a good system.
According to what I've read, this sort of search and rescue is a job for remote viewing organizations, not individuals. In order to get consistently good results you really need to have a good system.
Re: Psychics and Frauds
10 Oct 2011, 00:19
Re: Psychics and Frauds
10 Oct 2011, 00:27
Re: Psychics and Frauds
10 Oct 2011, 00:42
Ninja Puppy, excellent post!
You have given a very sound overview when it comes to the child prodigy course of things BUT. . . with music, dance and yes, the psychic thing, you have children raised in a specific environment that "programs" them. A great example is how so many Asian kids born into upper-middle-class quasi-traditional households are brutalized both, physically and psychologically to excel. While we see the same in the American athletic culture or with the mini-beauty queens (which should be out lawed) the push towards academic based excellence is huge within the primary Asian cultures as well as that of India, Malaysia, etc.
On some level we can see this in the Psychic/Spiritual culture but not usually under said extremes, just a steady push on the child when it comes to developing learning, memory & observation skills the act of focus & clarity when it comes to concentration and of course, learning to both, connect with all while likewise being non-attached -- sounds like a contradiction of things but makes sense the deeper you move into the work. As with most of what I've been sharing here, this is something discussed in the book "Wisdom of the Mystic Masters" and oddly enough, a lot of it is quite common within certain aspects of Free Masonry. Nothing mystical about it really, but as the child matures learning and mastering these skills the stronger their "aura" projects a psychic-like nature around them. Too, the greater the chances that the child will begin to show early signs of genuine ability. Regardless, any child raised under said auspices, just like those pushed in music, math, athletics, etc. will still know strong benefit and advantage in adult life.
The process towards awakening one's intuition and natural "Psychic" sense is very pragmatic. Some day the general public might awaken to this truth but unfortunately, most of them are in love with the fantasy vs. the truth.
You have given a very sound overview when it comes to the child prodigy course of things BUT. . . with music, dance and yes, the psychic thing, you have children raised in a specific environment that "programs" them. A great example is how so many Asian kids born into upper-middle-class quasi-traditional households are brutalized both, physically and psychologically to excel. While we see the same in the American athletic culture or with the mini-beauty queens (which should be out lawed) the push towards academic based excellence is huge within the primary Asian cultures as well as that of India, Malaysia, etc.
On some level we can see this in the Psychic/Spiritual culture but not usually under said extremes, just a steady push on the child when it comes to developing learning, memory & observation skills the act of focus & clarity when it comes to concentration and of course, learning to both, connect with all while likewise being non-attached -- sounds like a contradiction of things but makes sense the deeper you move into the work. As with most of what I've been sharing here, this is something discussed in the book "Wisdom of the Mystic Masters" and oddly enough, a lot of it is quite common within certain aspects of Free Masonry. Nothing mystical about it really, but as the child matures learning and mastering these skills the stronger their "aura" projects a psychic-like nature around them. Too, the greater the chances that the child will begin to show early signs of genuine ability. Regardless, any child raised under said auspices, just like those pushed in music, math, athletics, etc. will still know strong benefit and advantage in adult life.
The process towards awakening one's intuition and natural "Psychic" sense is very pragmatic. Some day the general public might awaken to this truth but unfortunately, most of them are in love with the fantasy vs. the truth.
Re: Psychics and Frauds
10 Oct 2011, 00:53
Re: Psychics and Frauds
10 Oct 2011, 01:26
Arouet,
Maybe you are wrong and the meaning is there without you realizing it. Do you think you could be . . . wrong?
Maybe you are wrong and the meaning is there without you realizing it. Do you think you could be . . . wrong?
Re: Psychics and Frauds
10 Oct 2011, 02:06
Re: Psychics and Frauds
10 Oct 2011, 05:17
Re: Psychics and Frauds
10 Oct 2011, 05:34
Re: Psychics and Frauds
10 Oct 2011, 20:40
Re: Psychics and Frauds
10 Oct 2011, 20:46
Re: Psychics and Frauds
11 Oct 2011, 01:01
Ninja, you are correct on the "curse" thing. . . also applies to lefties, birthmarks and a nice long list of other stupidity. What's interesting is that many of these cultures wouldn't kill the child but "exile" them in a special way; in Japan the child was left in the town square on certain nights and the Ninja (Coga Ryu) would take them and care for them. . . the fact that you ended up with a bunch of left handed warrior that the Samurai wasn't prepared for in later years wasn't ever weighed til it was too late. 
In most shamanic settings the children would be taken in by the village Wise One or that of another tribe near by.
Yes, there are those Mozart types and I do understand the difference, my comments earlier centered on those children that show the natural talent at toddler stage and the parents (or society) ruin by pushing them down a path and not allowing them to be kids. To my mind, it's child abuse but in certain cultures it's the norm.
Arouet, Craig W kind of hit on things with his reply. . . sometimes folks say things without realizing it, I'm terribly guilty of it.
When it comes to the cop-out/explanation used by skeptics; the idea that people do Cold Reading without knowing they are, I get a bit peeved in that it's both, assumption and exaggeration. I've already explained why I believe that to be the case but then, the gospel of Randi dictates that it's all Cold Reading, he refuses to deal with specifics and sadly, this tends to be a pattern of most skeptics; the generic blanket of Cold Reading.
Yes, the shotgun method of Reading -- putting enough stuff out there that some is bound to stick (a.k.a. Sensational Mentalism) can certainly be found in the Psychic world when you are dealing with the headline chasers pushing for another book deal. This is rarely the case when you are dealing with the more typical "down to earth" type Reader, most of whom strive to be specific or at least as direct as they can. I can't speak for others, but when my gut tells me to say things that make absolutely no sense at first (especially given what the oracle itself may be suggesting) and when I express that "hunch" and it hits hard with the client, I have to call that legit and a serious hit. I'm not going to sit there and barf up something on every little twitch I get, but to paraphrase Hugh Prather "When my entire being says ___ I have no course to take but accept ___ as the answer".
AND BEFORE IT'S STATED. . . coincidence is mute. That is to say, said common cop-out does not apply given the scenarios in question. "Coincidence" has become one of the several "logical" fail safe terms used by intellectual folks that deal in facts
Am I the only one that sees an oxymoron in that idea? Especially when coincidence, like paradox, are both viewed as illusory and non-existent in the bulk of world culture and spiritual thinking. It's comical, such things become real to the mind of those that would paint all other things in the light of fantasy and whimsy.
In most shamanic settings the children would be taken in by the village Wise One or that of another tribe near by.
Yes, there are those Mozart types and I do understand the difference, my comments earlier centered on those children that show the natural talent at toddler stage and the parents (or society) ruin by pushing them down a path and not allowing them to be kids. To my mind, it's child abuse but in certain cultures it's the norm.
Arouet, Craig W kind of hit on things with his reply. . . sometimes folks say things without realizing it, I'm terribly guilty of it.
When it comes to the cop-out/explanation used by skeptics; the idea that people do Cold Reading without knowing they are, I get a bit peeved in that it's both, assumption and exaggeration. I've already explained why I believe that to be the case but then, the gospel of Randi dictates that it's all Cold Reading, he refuses to deal with specifics and sadly, this tends to be a pattern of most skeptics; the generic blanket of Cold Reading.
Yes, the shotgun method of Reading -- putting enough stuff out there that some is bound to stick (a.k.a. Sensational Mentalism) can certainly be found in the Psychic world when you are dealing with the headline chasers pushing for another book deal. This is rarely the case when you are dealing with the more typical "down to earth" type Reader, most of whom strive to be specific or at least as direct as they can. I can't speak for others, but when my gut tells me to say things that make absolutely no sense at first (especially given what the oracle itself may be suggesting) and when I express that "hunch" and it hits hard with the client, I have to call that legit and a serious hit. I'm not going to sit there and barf up something on every little twitch I get, but to paraphrase Hugh Prather "When my entire being says ___ I have no course to take but accept ___ as the answer".
AND BEFORE IT'S STATED. . . coincidence is mute. That is to say, said common cop-out does not apply given the scenarios in question. "Coincidence" has become one of the several "logical" fail safe terms used by intellectual folks that deal in facts
Am I the only one that sees an oxymoron in that idea? Especially when coincidence, like paradox, are both viewed as illusory and non-existent in the bulk of world culture and spiritual thinking. It's comical, such things become real to the mind of those that would paint all other things in the light of fantasy and whimsy.
Re: Psychics and Frauds
11 Oct 2011, 05:25
Yes, I come from a long line of left handed, green eyed, red hair, gypsies. I'm sure we all would have been left out for the wolves. 