The Revelations of an Elite Family Insider

[RelentlessAlarm]

[Twain Shakespeare]

[Twain Shakespeare]

Oddly, my prayers to Rastafari were finally answered right after I had publically complained about his poor service here. I read up to page thirteen, then finished this thread, and am ready to write, but that will be written on Open office so I won't be using the quote feature, and my screed might run pages. Also, I am going to warch Dark Shadows at last in two hours, so my responses will likely not be long today.

One point already. I emphatically do not believe in monist theories of any sort, and my screed I referred you to before is in large part the culmination of a thirty year effort to dialectically refute Plato. Sokratically yours, Relentless

[Twain Shakespeare]

[RelentlessAlarm]

I will be totally honest, I will need to do A LOT of research before I can adequately respond. I must confess that I do not often read the works of others or explore such things in the academic or mystic realm. I came upon the Insider thing by chance. It was the first time I had read anything such as that.

I've never read Aldous Huxley (other than a summary of Brave New World :S), I am unfamiliar with Rastafari (I mean beyond what a five year old knows), no idea what any of the following are and so shall put my faith in Google to inform me, lol: Icke-ean, Zardoz, Malaclypse the Younger, Holy Crowley, "Loki in the Valhallapile, a Prometheos slumming" (now I HAVE heard of the Illuminati and Robert Anton Wilson, though my knowledge is limited - I started reading Illuminatus! Trilogy a few years ago - it failed to capture my attention at that point in my life).

I am eager to read up on all of these things, especially your Mathematical Mysticism post. I feel as if I am pulling on the first loose thread of an unravelling curtain. Rabbit down the hole so to speak.

The Oneness presented in the Insider materials is something that does happen to resonate with me; however, I have also very strongly always felt that duality played an even more observable role. I picture millions of interconnecting lines/waves - each line representing a spectrum and the key is finding the perfect point of balance within every single spectrum. THE perfect chemistry for harmony. Harmony being what allows the simultaneous existence of individual freedom and fairness.

A new favorite word - Grok. Fascinating, thank you!! Also a new word - screed. Love it

"he is claiming to be a guard, and in reality is a corrupt trustee passing notes."

I had considered this as well. I have a hard time processing the words of one who says never to trust the words of gurus, it creates quite the paradox, doesn't it? I wonder if there was any ego in the Insider's motives to post, particularly on that forum?

[Twain Shakespeare]

[Twain Shakespeare]

Meant EFI abbreviation for Elite Family Insider., not ELI. Just saw Dark Shadows, and am half as high as RA Wilson on Amsterdam Gold.

[RelentlessAlarm]

I'm wondering if this thread would be better located under the metaphysical, hologram world thread. Though I am unsure how to move it.

I'll have to read Island, sounds intriguing.

Oooh David Icke! I did look him up after reading the Insider thing...is he basically a cult leader? Why is he so (seemingly) beloved/followed by so many?

"Beware of Invisible White Rabbits. Their holes tend to lead to hallucinogenic briar patches and “How are you, Mr Wilson” experiences."

Can you elaborate what you mean? I'll respond to the inference I drew from what you are saying - don't worry, I never take anything anyone else says as fact until I have fully explored it or vetted the issue myself. Thus, I rarely see danger in chasing real or imagined rabbits - I'm far too aware of the power of self-delusion. Plus, even those things I do take as fact often have an escape clause

So to clarify, you are saying you do NOT believe in "Oneness"? Or you do not believe in a finite oneness? Do you believe earth is a prison of sorts? I just want to be sure I understand where you are coming from.

My logic, philosophies, etc., having been pushing me towards a cyclical understanding of existence and, likely due to the limitations of my mind, tends towards a "Oneness" view of existence (of course, this always leads to the problem of okay, then who/what created the circle and why). I would like to better understand your hypotheses and four mathematical patterns that oppose the idea of "platonic epistemology" to challenge my thought process, which has entered an infinite loop.

I read your mathematical mysticism thread, but I must admit, I am having a hard time totally following. Would you be willing to state the basic ideas in layman's terms - i.e. can you speak in ideas rather than idea labels? Like what is axiom zero? I've never learned this. It's making me conjure up a concept I've knocked around for years of the number line going out in separate directions towards negative and positive infinity, but negative and positive infinity are equal in concept, so really the line is a circle, which means infinite nothingness begets something - a circle. And an infinite number of overlapping circles makes a sphere with points of axis that act upon each other and thus create waves of something called possibility. All possibilities simultaneously exist and we exist within one of those possibilities...

Some key points or patterns I've observed (that I haven't pulled together entirely yet and cannot fully explain why I know, or think I know, these things). I am young, and still rather uneducated in this realm, and am only able to go off of my personal observations and intuition and ability to speculate.

- Sphere's are important
- Waves are important
- Positive and negative duality is important
- Most things we view as linear are probably wave folds (perhaps like the infinity symbol or simply a circle - cause effect loop, karmic balance) - including time, it just looks linear from our perspective
- From that perspective, there are spectrums of duality and points of balance
- Things go inward by as many (in)conceivable levels as outward
- Positive energy congregates in a stable core and negative energy speeds around the outside - this can be seen paralleled in many ways
- How to put this in words...lets say you have a gelatinous mass with positive and negative polarities. When the positive and negative are balanced, the gelatin keeps its stable form. If the push and pull between the polarities begin to wave, dip and peak, push, pull, the gelatin will be unstable, vibrating, creating waves. If the waves get big enough, the gelatin might fling apart.

Science has inadequately answered for me - why a big bang (actually given duality and the push pull creating waves of cause and effect, I can actually conceive of this, BUT, why existence, why duality? Is duality simply the result of existing vs. not existing? Why have a will to exist? Further, why have a will to survive (life)? where does this Will derive from? why act on the world?, why not simply exist?, why evolve and change?, where does collective understanding of "good" from?, why soooo smart, yet soooo stupid? why do we know and reason just enough to feel angst over a desire to explore, know, be at peace? why patterns and mathematical givens? That implies there is some organization - a natural result of balance/equilibrium? Still leads me to ask, why does there need to be balance between opposing forces? Why have opposing forces?

Funny you bring up RA Wilson. I know extremely little about him, but a friend of mine who had followed his works has always told me I share his brain. I suppose that is a compliment, though I suspect I am not that intelligent and am certainly not that well-read and verse in the academia of philosophy, et al.

[Twain Shakespeare]

[Twain Shakespeare]

It is a heart felt conviction and gut certainty that Earth is a prison, else why have I been trying to escape so hard? But it not something I have ANY statistical confidence about, so my using it as a basis for action is less logical than a Christian acting on the basis of original sin.

One other point I will put here (Ha, it took a page, it it is more of a hologram than a point). Your visualization of points causing lines, lines causing circles, and that leading to spheres put me in mind of my visualization of the three dimensions.

I was trying to tie pure math to real world referents. Pure math, by definition, has no connection to reality, since practical math is defined as "math with a real world application".

To demonstrate, the square root of negative one is necessary for pure math, but is logically impossible as it would be both positive and negative at once. Thus, it was once taken to be the archetypical proof that pure math DID NOT DESCRIBE the "real World".

Then it was discovered that electronics requires this square root to describe something in practical engineering without which electronics cannot be explained, and from being "proof" of the "non-reality" of "pure math", it became or biggest piece of evidence that the only dif between pure math and practical is, we have found a practical use for the latter.

On the other hand, the world is flat.

The Euclidean "pure math" in which parallel lines never meet is practical in nearly every application on Earth. We live on Flatland, a sphere so large it has been "flattened" from our perspective to such a degree that the horizon appears as a straight line unless we physically turn around 360 degrees, and see that straight line nonetheless bends in a circle.

Then we notice ships sinking below the horizon, and after observation, begin to deduce the movement of the stars as we learned to navigate. Eventually, Astrologers and navigators found that, in practical terms, if one sails far enough north or south, parallel lines do meet, while if one travels east or west, latitudes are not parallel by def because they difer in length. We go thru Ptolemy, Copernicus. Lobachevski, and Einstein, and realize that, on a large enough scale, parallel lines behave accord to Lobachevsky and Einstein's geometry, and space is bent...but we still speak of sunrise and sunset!

When I taught math, I had some success in explaining the three dimensions in terms of real world referents.
You have given me a new, simpler insight into my insight, by pointing out that nothing or Zero is the reference point, from which somethingness emerges, and nothing is defined by its position on a positive/negative line
To my students. I started by pointing out that the line is light and/or electromagnetism. That is the real world referent for the pure math concept of “the line.” (“As Above, so below” a Babylonian insight that describes fractals. Note that even the straight lines of light have “wavelength and their own three dimensionality.)
The second dimension on a graph is left or right. On a graph, this is shown as a straight line perpendicular to the pos/neg line. But in the real world, the first, linear, dimension is north south, while the second is east west, not left right, and is parallel to the line through circularity, being bent.
And as circles create spheres, the third dimension is down and up, or more accurately, down and out. This is the bending of space itself, gravity.
That much we can grok
The next question is, what, if anything do spheres make?
Oh. the world is only flat on a small enough scale. As for intersecting spheres, I suspect they create holograms, and intersecting holograms create language, but that is the barest suspiscion.

[Twain Shakespeare]

Relentless, if you search this forum for "lucisphere", you will find a four posts by me on the "Burden of Proof" thread in General discussions, and one more which may sum it up in a religion thread. The "Lucispere" is my name for a hologram which consists of the entanglement of every photon that ever intersected with another.

[RelentlessAlarm]

So sorry, Twain Shakespeare! I wanted to respond to your PM, but I do not appear to have permissions yet. I just got a new job and am drowning in work, so I haven't had too much time for philosophizing. But I will read and respond to all of the above as soon as possible. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply!

[NinjaPuppy]

[RelentlessAlarm]

Very kind of you, thank you, NinjaPuppy.

TwainShakespeare - I tend to agree that earth feels like a prison. But with that comes the realization that if earth is a prison and prisons imply being contained away FROM SOMETHING ELSE, then I am quite curious to contemplate what this other something is/might be/could be.

I have not yet read the lucishere suggestion, so I will save my comment, but thank you for sharing!

"Psychologicaldeformation of evolutionary programs evolved before individual consciousness" - is this like a collective group conscious, e.g. Borg-like as a precursor to individual conscience/conscious? What is the next evolutionary step do you think? Collective shared conscious and by that I do not mean ONE conscious but the complete free sharing of knowledge and memory to the point that all that is is open-source? Was Internet the stepping block towards this? Everything seems to be moving more to shared resources, efficiency, balance, etc. I wonder if, like waves, these dualities in which we live eventually sort themselves out and finds a nice balance point.

I was also pondering the hypothesis that time exists out of a necessity of duality. We live in a realm of duality with opposing forces, we're all here either trying to rock the boat and create as many waves and possible, or trying to find harmony and balance in all the madness. I've found this is largely linked to how much stimulus a person needs. In any case, without duality, opposition, conflict, etc., we would not have change and without change we would not have before and after. For humans, duality leads to choice which leads to change. Without choice, we would not have the ability to act upon the world in a meaningful, sentient way (that I can conceive of). Our ability to be aware of duality and therefore CHOOSE is what creates out perception of time - a before and after.

I'd like to be able to ask a tree how it perceives time.

Good point on the Harvey bit, something I try to take into consideration. I will respond more later, but I must join my family now. Thank you once again!

[Twain Shakespeare]

"Psychological deformation of evolutionary programs evolved before individual consciousness" is close to what I am saying, although I prefer the non-judgmental technical term "Co-adaptation" which refers to how something evolved for one purpose, such as feathers, which arose because they insulated, and was later adapted for, say, sexual display, which in turn developed, through female love of the gaudy,into a large enough fringe of forelimb feathers to allow gliding.
I do not consider it borg like. I prefer to take my analogies from nature. I see the pre individual group consciousness, the individual consciousness, and the modern competing species of group consciousness, as consisting of memes which are contained in words.
As the late great William Burroughs said, "Language is a virus." The alternative is certainly true. DNA is a language, and what is more, it appears to have emerged naturally.
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