Interviewing Craig Browning

[derrida]

Hey Man.. i just wanted to know if i could ask you a few questions
since you are one of the most interesting people in this forum

1. What got you hook up into magic?.. was it an uncle? an illusion in particular?.. was was it? how old were you?

2. Who is the magician who have you learned the most? or that you consider someone that does magic should read?

3. what makes a great magic routine?

4. what is your favorite magic routine (and or magician of all time).

5. why do you believe in the paranormal?.. since when?.. what got you hook up into the paranormal?. could you bare the belief that it could be a self deception? (just like i could understand you are entirely right? given a scientific test thas validates blablabla...)

6. could you ever tell scescop if URI was cheating or thats beyond your grounds?.. is it first magic than ethics?
just asking, for example in uri´s case you know just like i do that he has used his conjuror skills.. that has nothing to do with psychic..


please.. i think it would be great to know you a little more since you are often mentioned in magic circles.. so
im just humble.. if you dont want to answer me is ok man..
i understand

thanks for your time

[Craig Browning]

1.) What got you hook up into magic?.. Was it an uncle? an illusion in particular?.. was was it? how old were you?

1963 (I was 3, almost 4) and my two favorite TV shows were “The Magic Land of Alakazam” with Mark Wilson along with Shari Lewis & Lambchop (in latter years, it would be “Kukla, Fran & Ollie “along with Farfel & Co. that would encourage the puppet side of things…)

2. Who is the magician who have you learned the most? or that you consider someone that does magic should read?

My primary mentor was Charles W. “Kirk” Kirkham, one of the better known historians and successor to the legendary Will Rock who in turn took over the “B” unit of the Howard/Harry Thurston road show up into the early war years… Kirkham took the reins shortly after the war (officially in 53 I think it was). In the interim he worked for Blackstone (Sr) and was a consultant to several other notables of the day by way of his relationship with Percy Abbott and the Abbott Magic Co.

Other direct influences have included several “unknowns” as well as “legends” such as Peter Pit, John Platt, Abb Dickson & Harry Blackstone (Jr). When I shifted away from traditional magic into the Psychic & Bizarre side of things the key influences were Rick Maue, John Riggs, Millard Longman and Richard Webster with a few important nudges here and there by Max Maven, Docc Hilford and of course Banachek.

When it comes to “Studies” I have to divide the issue a bit…

When I was younger I had major problems reading and more so, comprehension of material and so I needed to have people show me how to do what I’d read about. Most of what I would come to know was actually taught to me, so I guess you could say that I’m more of a “visual” and “hands on” type of student. This changed in the early 80’s when Milt Larsen challenged me to help with a “vandalism” issue in the Magic Castle Library (in truth, it was just his way of helping a kid kicking drugs, move forward). I started reading rather than skimming through those books (anyone that’s seen the library of the Magic Castle knows just how huge a task this would be). My appetite along with an improved sense of recollection, reached a point to where staff would point to me and say, “if you have any questions ask him, he can probably cite the book and page…” (I’d kill to have just a fraction of that ability back again).

For me, the most important books have to be historical (and not just within magic) and/or biographical. Nest to that, anyone seeking to be an entertainer of any sort MUST study material about stage itself, showmanship, acting. This is the stuff I was pushed toward in my younger days and even to present; If a “magician is but an actor playing a part” then ACTING is what he/she needs to study most, screw the tricks!

When it comes to what one should study outside of these things, I believe it depends on what areas of magic or skills you are most attracted to. I have always been drawn to grand illusions and the macabre and so the bulk of my studies involved illusion development, staging of routines, construction variances (as well as methods; very few effects rely on just one way of doing them mechanically.) While I did some limited work as a close-up performer and escapist, they were not my prime area of focus and as such I know very little about card ticks (other than I loathe 90% of them as well as the jerks that do them… the exceptions are few with Martin Nash at the top of heap).

It was the late Glen Falkenstien along with Max Maven and my Mentor that put me on the road of Mentalism early on… it all started with resources that were most common back them such as the works of Eddie Joseph, Robert Nelson and of course Corinda. The treatise of T.A. Waters now heralded as “Mind, Myth & Magic” were being sold at a steep discount at Hollywood Magic so I grabbed them up, though many in the day, laughed at them and seemed to not extend T. A. the level of honor he’s since earned.

Much of what I learned in Mentalism stems from a far older, less commercial point of view compared to what we have today (little of which is actual “Mentalism” in my opinion as well as that of many who, like I, started in the art well prior to the mid-1990s and the related “trend”/hype).

3. what makes a great magic routine?

A solid showman!

I have dear friends that do a “traditional” family magic show; every single thing is done exactly as it has been done for generations. There are no variations, nothing extra flashy, etc. But they do work the work consistently and they are solid in what they do. The reason is simple; they are show people and know the art of “selling” what they do when on stage as well as when they meet fans after the show.

I’ve been fortunate to know many of the greats from decades past like Sid Caesar & Imogene Coca, Milton Beryl, and Bob Hope as well as magic legends of the same era ALL of whom projected the same kind of “you’re my friend” attitude off stage. Their energy and savvy was uncanny and the kind of thing that’s rare now days. To my mind though, these were THE Show People one needs to model if one is to become genuinely successful.

4. what is your favorite magic routine (and or magician of all time).

This is an impossible question in that there are many… too many and for various reasons. Shimada has to be on the list because his Parasol Act was the most breathtaking thing I’d ever seen as a kid; Blackstone, Jr. is a favorite because he is one of the few that meets all the trademark bits of being the “classic” magician akin to his father’s day (a role Lance Burton seems to have carried forward).

One of the most important influences in my life, especially when I was still focused on big illusions, was the great Richiardi (this will give you a glimpse into why – ) and remains such, though there are also huge Carnival/Side Show influences as well, based on my past work with mega showman/pitchman legends Ward Hall & John Meah.

(This is such a long list… “sigh”)… Martin Nash (the charming cheat) will always be my favorite card worker while Norm Nielson will forever be the man that made me believe in magic… when I was nearly 30 and seeing him live for the first time… UNCANNY! But there are many others that we have neither time nor space to list.


5. why do you believe in the paranormal?.. since when?.. what got you hook up into the paranormal?. could you bare the belief that it could be a self deception? (just like i could understand you are entirely right? given a scientific test thas validates blablabla...)

So now we find the gristle in the steak, eh?

From my earliest memories I have been able to “read” people with uncanny precision and that has included “remembering” them or events, from previous life-times. These were traits that my parents worked very hard to suppress, even to the level of hosting an exorcism of sorts… then again, they (my father in particular) tried very hard to beat the fag out of me back then as well… no father in the early 60s wanted a toddler son that had a lisp or swished when he walked…

As I came into my teens I would discover that many members of the family had ties to various forms of spiritual work… not just in the role of “Minister” (as they called it) but as Readers, Healers (and midwives), and Soothsayers as well as Dowsers… in fact, learning to dowse was seen as a kind of “rite of passage” you might say.

As I’ve mentioned before, I’ve been doing Readings with Tarot since I was roughly 16-17 but didn’t start taking money for doing it or shamanic type healing work until nearly a decade later, after being lectured by several members of “the community” that “God gave you this gift to help others as well as yourself…”

My spiritual views, even when I was being raised in that Southern Baptist world, have always held a strong Metaphysical edge to them; it’s the only thing that made sense to me but ironically, I’d not have those views validated until I was in my late teens and finding books on Hermetics and Mysticism that were echoing the very things I’d “learned” by way of my “dreams” (what I actually view as attending school on the Astral plane, simply because that is what the experiences were like). But there is a quirk to all of this… I was born with an inquisitive mind; the sort of kid that had to know how & why things work the way they do (sound familiar to anyone?)

Though I’d get little nuggets of insight in my early days, it wouldn’t be until my mid & late teens that I’d really be able to do some footwork that could answer SOME of my questions about the paranormal. What I found were some very valid, even logical perspectives and yet, they did not explain “it all” and just as I’d seen with the preachers and new age creatures of ego, a lot of it was full of horse pucky; creative double-speak for lack of a better term. Too, as I’d “challenge” some of these “experts” on the paranormal (a.k.a. skeptics) to explain phenomena I’d experienced or witnessed, I noticed they would turn into politicians and shift the topic or bend the discussing. When I would force them back on topic they would ultimately start trying to make me look like a trouble-maker and demeans me by calling me delusional and ignorant when it comes to all forms of deception… the list is long when it comes to these tactics, none of them being overly flattering for either party; the supposed “intellectual” proving both, their arrogance and pre-set opinion on things which, in a of itself, negates any validity their “tests” might present due to predetermined views… you simply will not find a pessimist that will support the claims made by the faith-filled counter-parts.

“Self-Deception”… I love that line in that it is only about 98.5% applicable.

While I’ve revealed to countless dozens of “New Age Air Heads” this very truth, helping them to become more critical with their thinking, I am very much convinced that a very slight percentage of the public has legit claims. But there is a bit more to this opinion…
While working in Las Vegas at a New Age bookstore I had the opportunity to meet and subtly challenged roughly 120 some licensed “Psychics” (many regions now require background checks and licensing to help curb the grifting problem – Clark Co., NV, was one of the first areas to do this). Of this group, less than a dozen (I think it was more like 7-8) actually passed two levels of the testing, revealing to me what I’d consider to be legitimate abilities; several of the others I caught-up using known cheats (other than Cold Reading methods), one of whom bent over backwards to buy my silence when it came to how fake he really was; the moral of the story being that roughly 5% of those that claim to be Psychic actually reveal anything smacking of honest INTUITIVE ability.

IT IS IMPORTANT to clarify the fact that most of what I believe when it comes to this stuff, is based on the semantics/linguistics around things. That is to say that I believe much of what the believers out there look upon as being mystical, has been explained by science and other sources. At the same time, I believe the most of it, as far as the logical/rational side of the explanations are concerned, were known by the old mystics but they couldn’t explain it as we can now. Similarly, different terms based on their environment, level of education, etc implied the exact same thing our scholastic world has said, we’ve just confused the language issue.

I am always pointing out to my Pagan friends that “The Ways of the Wise” didn’t mean to be gullible or delusional when it comes to things magickle; it means being educated and understanding the “higher path”

One other point on this “self-deception” line… given the background I have in magic, the number of effects I’ve helped develop over the years, refinements on deception & staging as well as the many “Haunted” type systems I’ve helped create… well, just how do you think someone with such a unique background can’t or won’t see “the trick” or “deception” in such things? How is someone that hasn’t even a fraction of that background going to honestly accuse me of such… especially those tied to the magician’s world that strive to disprove the paranormal by inventing tricks as an explanation?

The day I meet critics of the paranormal that can replicate a handful of situations under the exact conditions they were witnessed under, is the day I start giving a bit more credit where it is due. So far, most scoff and call me a fool but RUN away from the challenge, nonetheless.

6. could you ever tell scescop if URI was cheating or thats beyond your grounds?.. is it first magic than ethics?

I have had a few exchanges with Uri over the years and I’ve come to understand a handful of things about him;

a.) He is a showman, in the sense of his ability to interact with the public and given them what they want…
b.) He has a very strong “human” side to himself; he’s quite passionate about helping other people at the medical level (he’s actually invested in several medical science programs in Europe as well as Israel), but he is likewise concerned with people on the spiritual/psychic level.
c.) I believe that Uri has hinted at the fact that he’s a showman in the past few years; his mode of work & marketing during the 60s & 70’s being based on what we now refer to as “Old School” thinking within the world of Mentalism; a manner in which you promote yourself as being the real deal. It was very common throughout much of the 20th century, by some of the most notable names of the times (with Robert Nelson leading the pack, it would seem). Very few outside of an incredibly tight-nit circle of friends & associates, would know one way or the other.
This is in sharp contrast to the “Dunninger” types and what has become known as the “New School” mode of the craft via which everything is deliberately tied to the idea of being a “trick” complete with all the horse-crap disclaimers and pig-headed insults (in many cases) towards those that do believe or make psychic claims… it’s rude, has destroyed the art form in a way that may not allow it to recover… but hey, look at how schlock magicians have belittled magic as a whole… using it as a means to gain sexual favor while sustaining a “chemically dependent” lifestyle… not that I’m type-casting or anything…

He understands the fact that people pay good money to come watch him do his thing and as they say, “The show must go on”… if you get the gist….
… “Psychic” ability and even “Intuition” isn’t the kind of thing you can turn on or off, so when you are in a public type position, you’d best have your butt covered or risk getting lynched. There’s more than a few historic events in which such things happened at the height of the Spiritualist and even early 20th century “Scientific Knowledge” craze.


JUST A QUICK NOTE: I’m willing to go along with this, but I beg you all to not jump in on my beliefs and views too harshly. We’ve been through all that crap and neither of us are scheduled to change our points of view anytime in the near future… or this lifetime…

[derrida]

hey!
thanks for your reply
that was really interesting i got to learn a lot about you thru this
i didnt attempt to get you into an argument.. i just wanted to learn about you

you use the word showman for uri.. which is true.. but would you use the word magician to define him?..

my favorite routine of all time is copperfield´s flying.. i remember watching it in the theatre when i was a kid. and i remember being really emotional about it.. the music gets me.. it is so beautiful..
is perfect..



hope you are getting better

[ProfWag]

[Craig Browning]

I love your line with Harry & Gay but there's a great tale (I probably shouldn't tell, but I will ) involving their names...

We were at the Magic Castle for the popular Friday lunch, a group of fellow magi sat at a table and gossiping, in this case, it was about something Blackstone had done... I think it was when he played the Magic Island... nonetheless, Max Maven walks into the dinning area... a member of the group (a dear friend of Max's, in fact) looks up and says, "Speaking of Harry & Gay..."

I remember when the Statute of Liberty "system" was being "tested" and how excited David and others that were there, were when it came to the fact that it worked and no stooges were required

The Flying is something that has evolved over several decades... generations even, and not by way of the magic world but rather, Broadway. Needless to say, we are referring to the way Peter Pan has flown for generations in live productions, along side a myriad of other characters over the years, the cables always being a bit evident, but no one cared... they weren't watching a "Magic Show". Kismet, for lack of a better term, seemed afoot when the focused development began in John Gaughan's shop (Johnny holds the Patent and development credits to the system, though there were no less than 6 key magic-techs involved with the completed system, which I am told, took 3 years and close to a half a million dollars to develop... probably one of the reasons it now retails for over $50k). Once the system was working right everyone was focused on how to get David, one of the busiest acts in the world (over 300 working gigs a year e.g. 400+ performances), rehearsal time. The solution was to create a basic system that could travel with the show, that would set-up and give him a few hours a day to get used to balancing and movement and likewise, train the support team (whom I refer to as "Puppet Masters" for some odd reason). As the story goes, the "real" unit came in shortly thereafter and within 6 months the "act" was seen as being one of the most enchanting levitations in magic history... and that was for the magician's only dress rehearsals, it would be a while before the lay-audience would witness it, but when they did... the exaggerations and rumors started flowing! Including my favorite -- "He went right over our heads" -- which is physically impossible when it comes to the limitations of the system, let alone the lighting and distance requirements for keeping the illusion's integrity.

The beautiful thing about the Flying System is that it has "utility" applications -- ways of being used (secretly) by a stage performer, even when the effect itself isn't being featured in the show. If I'd kept with doing a big show, I would most likely found a way to get one, even though I didn't work large houses (typically 800-1,200 seats was my limit, though there were those awesome gigs at fairground & sporting events... nothing like 20-30,000 screaming, applauding people )

LEVITATIONS have always been one of my favorite effects and of the many available my personal favorite has always been the Asrah (sorry, couldn't find a video of it; basically, girl lays on couch and gets covered... she raises into the air, cover is pulled off (or falls to the floor) and she's gone). It has been one of the primary illusions featured in both, my family show and the Macabre show. The only times it wasn't in the act was when I was doing a levitation of my own design or a piece that was more appropriate to the setting (when working in the round, one must make exceptions )

... sigh... so much magic, so little time

[derrida]

[caniswalensis]

I gotta hand it to you guys; this thread is SUPER interesting!

[NinjaPuppy]

[ProfWag]

I'm very very jealous Craig. I can honestly say that I made the right decision making the military a career, but if I hadn't, my plan was to work at Abbott's and work my way up the magician's ladder (I grew up in Northern Indiana and Abbott's was about as close to real magic as I could get.) Oh well. To this day I've never made it to the Magic Castle, but it's on my Bucket List to go, just once.
Funny, the Asrah was my favorite back in the day as well, (I even bought the Barbie Doll version for whatever reason--never performed it thank god) but if I remember right on the real one, the shimmer curtain was just as expensive as the illusion itself!

[ProfWag]

Bottom line when it comes to routines, I guess I believe in the old saying that anyone can do a trick but it's a special someone who can do magic. Even though I don't perform any longer, I think I'm like most magicians in that I don't watch an effect and try to figure out how it's done, I watch an effect for the routine and the presentation. I like magic that's true "art" and, unfortunately, the true artists in the craft don't get the notoriety they deserve. Give me a Michael Ammar over David Blaine anyday. (But that's just me...)

[derrida]

[ProfWag]

Ammar looked a little nervous on Letterman, and perhaps he was a bad example, but I meant to say was that I prefer the magicians who are smooth and perform magic as an art form rather than the Blaines and Angels who, to me at least, use camera tricks and play to the TV.
As for the nerves, I don't think I ever got nervous, I just start shaking uncontrollably, almost Parkinson like. I was doing some impromptu a few months back for my nieces and nephews and the same thing happened. Can't explain it. I used to relish in the limelight of the stage though and never felt I got nervous.

[derrida]

I wouldnt put blaine and angel on the same boat.. angel abuses camera tricks plus he is a douche, it just isnt entertaining at all.
i like blaine.. i remember watching him the first time and saying.. what?!?!?!
is he really using the cigar thru quarter!!?!?!? copperfield already did it!..
yet people were stunned by him.. and is because of him that there´s so many kids practicing magic
was that good?.. not sure.. i like to think that from those kids and because of that there´s gonna come a new and even better copperfield.
a new messiah if you will..

my favorite classical magician is Lance Burton
i can watch his dove act forever..

[ProfWag]

[derrida]

so we have talked about great magicians..
but do you have cringe moments when seeing amateurs or semi-pros on stage?
i get those all the time here.. we pretty much have the old classical magician.. (i call them circus magicians) with the tuxedos, scarfs and the 30dollar toys doing the same routines.. is really crappy magic..