SCEPCOP Forum

I've been at this for a few years, but got nowhere. Science demands a reasonable hypothesis, and tests that are simple and definitive. If the tests are definitive and predictable, pretty good bet you're on to something. This is, unless no amount of data will change your mind.

More and more people are beginning to tell their experiences (usually finding pipes or tubes). I put out a summary paper with the URLs to the 14 videos I made and several papers. Despite all evidence to the contrary, the James Randi Ed. Fdn. still told me it was "ideomotor effect."

The hard data, showing what dowsing rods will and will not do is out there, and growing. Eventually, organized skeptics will be forced to address the findings. Here's the URL to my summary paper: http://journal.borderlands.com/2010/dow ... ubsurface/. Add your findings. Eventually, like all paradigm shifts, they will be forced to acknowledge the reality - nothing new, just another repeat of a historical process.

Am happy I found you all.

Best,



Taffy

you are not at JREF

but i can tell you
it is the ideomotor response

do it with a blindfold without touching anything
and let the people change the position of the cube of water without you hearing it
lets see how you do


oh.. yes

Welcome

Welcome Taffy!

Deja Vu

While I'm exceptionally well versed in Ideomotor technique (it's been the basis to many of the things I've done on stage, etc.) I also come from a familial situation in which Dowsing is very much a part. I've seen and experienced the difference first hand and sadly, there is no way to "prove it" to the cynically dependent, that such is so... sorry Taffy, but if James Randi could prove the sun was a hoax there are "educated" fools out there that would kiss his wrinkled butt and praise him for such a revelation.

The chief problem with proving Dowsing or any related skill centers on one's ability to not just silence the mind but set aside any (ANY) expectation. This is something the cynics not only can't do, they would refuse to do so even if they could. But we can say the same about the believer to some extent, which is why when they place themselves into a "prove it" scenario, they fail. They are so fixed on the idea and overly confident that they "aren't listening" but rather, trying to second guess things via the logical mind so as to expedite the demonstration and have gloating rights.

The other issue centers on "external" energy or what some call "Telepathic Influence" which also comes as a double-edged factor; the skeptics seeking to test the claim project their doubt and desire to see the dowser fail and so they will IF the dowser is ultra-sensitive to such an emotional focus. Conversely (and this is very true during the "training" process for dowsing), the believer can misguide the novice by wanting them to succeed and unwittingly influence the tests (even when out of sight... for those that will want to suggest body language tattle-tales).

I have seen and actually had the Y stick pulled from my hands when coming onto certain "flows" (it's most common with fast moving, heavy bodies of underground water). I've likewise had Pendulums, Okimeters and other such "static" devices suddenly go nuts in how they move when over a specific target. So again, I KNOW there's much more to it than mere ideomotor influence BUT... and this is very important to note... the majority of what people do, especially when they are just starting into dowsing, IS ideomotor based discovery. That's not to cosign the claim that it's all one in the same, only that understanding the difference requires time and experience (along with DAILY practice).

"Scientific" qualification for this and most other paranormal or psi type skills will probably never come to be accepted by the status quo simply because those who can't replicate the skill will insist that it's fake and trickery is involved, ignoring the fact that they are missing a particular "ingredient" in the testing -- someone that is a successful dowser vs. a johnny-come-lately ego wanting to prove himself.

yep if dowsing was real why you cant locate water in a double blinded test?
why is that i wonder?
common craig, go and take randi´s money and make a fool out of him
but nah.. you rather call him an old fart and do nothing
you only seem to find water when you can actually see it
hahahaha

and by the way
lets never forget
that this idiotic concept killed people in irak


i believe that the scammer that sold this is facing charges

yes is Irak in spanish
but we do use Iraq when we use it by the full name of Republica de Iraq

Ok... I had no clue as to the multi-lingual talents of our great harasser... but there is such a thing as Spell Check which is what keeps my posts looking a bit better than they otherwise could look

I do find it ironic, the fact that many of the most educated and prolific writers, researchers, etc. couldn't spell. Some had horrid inabilities just functioning in common society, many being institutionalized as "mad" or a social burden until their genius started shining through.

When I was introduced to MENSA in the early 80s it was seen as a very legit scholastic "fellowship" from which many JPL employees, Cal Tech and MIT students were being "discovered". Though I had several friends involved with the group I refused to see myself as being that big a geek


AS TO THE RANDI SILLINESS... firstly, it's just that, pure silliness and a major waste of time and money. I typically get paid to jump through hoops by clients not pay for the privileged of "entertaining" a handful of biased "researchers". Besides, Randi only accepts those that are going to get him another spot on Larry King or 60 Minutes along side another college circuit tour, etc. The whole sham exists to support him and further the evangelizing of Atheism; proof can be seen in how it is exploited (including, how it's become the preferred batton whenever anyone claims an ability or experience. It's much akin to how fundamentalist Christians seek to shove the bible up everyone's ass... as undeniable fact/truth, et al).